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generaldebrigade >>Die Kriegskunst >>Did we do this right?!


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flick40- 07-20-2009
Did we do this right?!
Situation: 18 figure Hussar unit in line with superior horse charges a 16 figure Grenadier unit, both veteran. The Grenadier unit is uphill, and fresh, aka never fired. Defensive fire only managed 2 casualties (bad roll) on the Hussars and both passed morale to charge home and to receive the charge. Hussars +3 Charging +2 Superior Mounts +1 (if the hill is treated as steep/difficult terrain Unformed -2) Outnumber enemy +1 as infantry counts 1/2 figures (more depending on the math) Total +5 (+3) Grenadiers +1 Uphill +2 Die roll difference was 4 with Hussars winning, Grenadiers retreat. Persuit test result was blown horses. Casualties 1 for 1 to the Grenadiers = 16; annihilation! Hussars take zero casualties as Infantry counts 1/2 fighting totaling 8 figures and need 12 to do 1 casualty. Wow, just wow! Both my opponent and I were stunned that a Hussar unit, who in my humble opinion have no business charging formed infantry frontally, accomplished this. I always thought and used Hussars to chase down disorganized and broken troops or to harass the rear. Granted the Grenadiers could and probably should have formed square. It's not like they didn't see the charge coming. But we were play testing and wanted to see how it would flow.

flick40- 08-15-2009

Thanks for the views, our group has decided not to go with these rules though some ideas will be incorporated as house rules. Cheers

RDonny- 08-18-2009

In defence of the rules, I wouldn't have worked it out quite the way you did. I would have disallowed the charge becaue cavalry cannot charge across difficult terrain 6.3 Cavalry charges page 27. If it was a gentle slope then it would be for firing +2 first fire +2 firing at charging cavalry +1 Veteran If this didn't stop him. Melee +3 Huzzars +2 charging That's it. I would say they don't outnumber the grenadiers becaue it's 18 vs 16. You only count the outnumber bonus if they outnumber by 50%. The playsheet should read "for every 50%" not "or every 50%". See page 49 of the rule book. Another printing cockup. I wouldn't allow huzzars superior mounts. They rode light horses. Grenadiers +1 infantry +2 uphill Roll the dice and add the modifier. The winner is the one with the highest score. The difference in the score determines the outcome on the melee results table. Then you count infantry half numbers. If the infantry are lucky and win they only count 8 figures and cause 1 casualty. See the melee example B on page 52 of the rule book. But you're right. If the grenadiers don't seem them off with firepower they're probably screwed. However this is historically accurate I think. Marshal Saxe saw exactly this happen to two imperial battalions against Turkish cavalry and the spectacle traumatised him for life. It also shook his confidence in musket volleys and he pioneered the use of aimed fire and skirmishing. I think. Correct me if I'm wrong about the history or the rules. Hey ho. What fun.

Chris Ginn- 08-20-2009

Actually, 14 vs 16, 2 died from musketry. I would agree about the superior horses, where did those come from? I am afraid you have hit one of the problems with the rules, the dice have an enormous influence. If you have lots of units, it is not a problem in my view, you chuck in another unit. However, the rules seem to be written for a relatively small number of units per army, so it can be a problem. Its a similar problem if you have two units of cuirassiers on a flank and you lose one to a crap dice throw its a real problem. If you have 6, then its not such a big deal. Of course you coud use Austrrian Grenadiers, they come in units of up to 24, alternatively, support your units so he can't get 18 (14) hussars onto 16 poor grenadiers.

Chris Ginn- 08-20-2009

Sorry, confused myself there, 16 vs 16.

flick40- 08-20-2009

We were playing the 2nd scenario in the rulebook and rolled for all cavalry, probably should not have. That result was a deal breaker for anyone wanting to continue with the rules. Even with the knowledge that we proably played it wrong I am having issue trying to convince them to give it another go.

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