Odd Situation
Hi Still a Newbie :) In my last game an odd situation came about. A french column was set to charge my line but another column was set to charge the french column in the flank. If I won the initive it would have been ok I would have declared my flank charge first. But I lost and the french declared the charge on my line first leaving my flank column stranded. I was advised not to reinforce the line and french column combat (as the rules state the I could not charge it) with my flanking column as it would have suffered the same fate as my line (which looked as if it was going to lose). This situation I found strange. Did we play this right according to the rules ? Or what should have happened. What should I have done with the flanking column ? Any thoughts would help Cheers

Hi Bummer that your flank charge failed. I would be interested in knowing what the flanking orders were (engage/support etc.) If your line and column were from the same brigade then they really should be in the same formations, mixed formations in brigades were not true historical entities. I would have formed the 'flank column' into line and engaged/supported your line that was being charged. Generally two lines will stop a single column dead. You are correct in that you cannot charge into a melee. Hope this helps. Ceara

I would have reinforced the melee with the flank unit. I think you get to roll for each of the units in melee as well as getting the out-numbering + flank bonus, so even if the line lost chances are the flank attack would win so you win the overall melee.

This is where the bigger picture comes into play (Brigade Orders). While I agree that you could reinforce the melee with your 'flanking column' if this was an isolated encounter - but was it - was the French column attacking in isolation (they rarely did) but if it was then reinforce the melee and take your chances. But in reinforcing this melee are you leaving a hole in you lines? I always fight as French and NEVER attack lines in isolation - I use echlon columns for just such an eventuality. Usually works. Ceara

Hi Interesting. The line was part of one brigade with Engage order, the column was another brigade with Assult orders. The French column was not in issolation just at the end of the french attack. Was the situation played out ok using the rules or did I miss something ? Thanks for the replies so far

odd situation
hello all i have not played for a while but from menory the french coloum should have reacted to the charge on its self by the flanking coloum even if the french won the initative mick

mixed formations
Hi mixed formations had been used by both british and french, prussian infantry. a mix of line and column with in the same brigade was normal. and in one battle the brits had a square fixing the line at both ends as they moved forward. the rules just did not cover this action in the right way, I would of looked at the distance between each formation and worked it out cm by cm, michael

In the case of the earlier French demi-brigades wasn't the normal formation to have the 1st and 3rd battalions in column and the 2nd (being the original regulars) in line?

With respect to the original poster's question, you may have been badly advised pq2U. Once the French column charged, and contacted your defending unit in line, how do you mean your statement "the rules state I could not charge it" with your other flanking column? Was the French column no longer in the 'charge arc' of flanking column? Was it too far away? Did you not declare a charge by your 'flanking column' on the French column? Andy's approach (above) is absolutely the correct one, if no 'arc' or distance issues pertain: just follow the rules for "Reinforcing Melee" on p.38, by declaring and resolving your charge into the French column's flank. As the French unit is already locked in Melee with your line unit, it does not test to 'stand'. In Melee you will follow the rules for Multiple Unit Melees (also p.38), and take the best result of the two dice rolls (one for each unit on your side), with additional modifiers for Outnumbering; whereas the French column will have only one dice roll, and be subject to a -4 modifier for being attacked in the flank. I think I know which side I'd rather be on . . . :lol: Edit: For all those who believe the phasing French column should get to 'react' to the declared charge of the 'flanking column', I refer you to page 3 of the following thread where Dr. Brown has ruled: http://generaldebrigade.13.forumer.com/viewtopic.php?t=2470&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=canceled+cancelled+charge&start=0 . . . which apologies for re-opening any old wounds!

This seems to me like a classic case of " i need to win the initiative roll" scenario. Although it does open things up a bit, would the French column have to react to the flank charge. Surely as the French column moves to the ½ way point to receive fire from the line, they would then have to react to a declared flank charge. Or would they react once the flank charge had been declared, even though they won the initiatve. I hav'nt got my rules handy (in my games hut) so I will check this out tomorrow.

Greystreak, Interesting debate in your old thread. Trying to disrupt a phasing players charge or taking advantage of a charge to then get in a flank attack in the same round could be avoided (to some degree at least) if there were charge priorities. See the thread re "Revised Melee Factors". Ants

Hi My Column was still in charge distance at the end of the french charge move. So, what I should have done was declare a charge on the french column with my column. If the french failed to charge home then I would have charged then. If the french charged home then I would have reinforced the melee and had outnumbered the french (as my column was bigger then the line so I would have had the + for being numbering by 50%) and the french would have had the -4 from being attached in the flank but the french still would have had the +'s for charging and being in column making (if I remember right) the french on '+0' . So overal I would have been a head on column one dice roles by +3 (+1 outnumber and +2 for being in column). If the line ran and there was no melee between the line and the french. Would my charge still have counted ? And in order to test to charge would the line affect me charging the french as it would have been with in 15cm (as it would have move back 10cm). ? Thanks

Quote..I think I know which side I'd rather be on You hav'nt seen my dice rolls Bryce, lol. As I thought and you are correct Bryce (thanks Dr Brown) All down to Initiative, Morale, and lucky dice. We are trying out some of the new amendments tonight. It is our weekly bash and we are playing naps. Theoretical Russian/Prussian vs French/Italian. 500pts, 8 x 6 table, with a good size river running through it. Only 2 crossing points and both side want them. MMMMMMMMMmmmmmmmm Interesting.. Will put some pics on our site for anyone who wants to have a look at what we do.

I am not sure how this should play out - if the flanking column is bigger than the line; will the French column be able to claim the charging and column modifiers as neither can count versus the larger flanking column ? I think you take the modifiers from the largest units so I suspect the French column cannot claim them and melees on a -4 :( . Your charge would still count if the column is still in range. The line unit is not relevant to your columns charge.

As I sit reading through Chapter 11 of the rule book as well as the other threads covering this type of situation I have come to the following conclusion on what should have happened. The French Column would charge the line unit and receive all its modifiers. The Line unit would receive its modifiers (was it British? Let us assume it was) The other (British?) column could have charged into the flank of the French Column if it met all the preconditions for charging, (on the correct orders, in arc etc) The modifiers (assuming all troops are Line status): French Column: +1 for Infantry +2 for Charging +2 for formed Infantry in Column - 4 for Attacked in Flank or Rear French Column total modifiers +1 British Line: +1 For Infantry +1 Formed British in Line British Line total modifiers +2 British Column Modifiers +1 for Infantry +2 for Charging +2 for formed Infantry in Column +1 For Outnumbering the enemy - for every 50% (this is on the assumption that the column was the larger of the two British units and that they only outnumbered by 50%) British Column total modifiers +6 The British player rolls two die, one for each unit specifying which die covers which unit! The respective modifiers are then applied. The French roll one die applying there modifiers. The highest score of the two British units is used in comparison against the French score and the result table is examined. Short of some very bad die rolling by the British for both units I can see the French column getting a thrashing! :twisted: Eugene