Vimiero (or beyond starter scenario Ventosa)
Notes. French battalions fairly large and still using 9 companies,per battalion system however all the Grenadier and Carabineer companies were combined into Kellermans reserve battalions. British battalions were also fairly large at this early stage of the war. Should make for an interesting change using big battalions. British also had a fairly high proportion of 'lights' 5/ 60th , and 1 and 2/ batts of 95th rifles, also HLI , 43rd and 52nd Lights also present, so make skirmishers as well for 50% of the light battalions for when they deploy ! I'm considering brigade arrival on table options to allow the french flanking force to be varied by the french player(s) and to allow the british player (s) brigades a chance of non arrival eg esp ackland and trant. Any ideas ? Vimerio 21st August 1808, French Cin C Junot XX Delaborde X Brennier Approx 120 men per battalion for the Grenadier Reunis and 600 Casualties for Rolica deducted 3/2nd Legere 805 men 36 FIGS LINE 6 skirmishers 3/4th Legere 828 men 36 FIGS LINE 6 skirmishers 1/70th Ligne 909 men 36 FIGS LINE 6 Skirmishers 2/70th Ligne 909 men 36 FIGS LINE 6 Skirmishers ( and one of the provisional dragoon regts ) ? with Cav X officer X Thomieres Minus 4 companies left at Elvas 1/86th 852 men 36 FIGS 2nd LINE 6 skirmishers 2/86th 852 men 36 FIGS 2nd LINE 6 skirmishers 4th Swiss 246 men ( 2 companies) 12 FIGS CONSCRIPT XX Loison Minus 120 men per battalion for Grenadier Reunis and 1450 and 1000 sick at Almeida X Solignac 3/12 Leger 833 men 36 FIGS 2nd LINE 6 skirmishers 3/15th Leger 885 men 36 FIGS 2nd LINE 6 skirmishers 3/58th Ligne 908 men 42 FIGS 2nd LINE 3 skirmishers X Charlot 3/32 Ligne 614 men 24 FIGS 2nd LINE 6 skirmishers 3/82nd Ligne 543 men 24 FIGS 2nd LINE Reserve Grenadiers Kellerman (include carabineer companies from Leger battalions) 2100 total 1/1 525 men 30 FIGS VETERAN 1/2 525 men 24 FIGS LINE 1/2 525 men 30 FIGS VETERAN 2/2 525 men 24 FIGS LINE Artillery 23 Guns (26 minus the 3 lost at Rolica) includes 10 guns in reserv under a 'Taviel' Cavalry XX Margaron with the other X officer 1st Provisional Chasseurs (ex 26th) 263 men 12 FIGS LINE 3rd Provisional Dragoons 640 men 32 FIGS LINE ? poor mounts ? 4th Provisional Dragoons 589 men 32 FIGS LINE ? facing colours ? 5th Provisional Dragoons 659 men 32 FIGS LINE Arrived to late to participate in the assault but covered the retreat 1/66th Ligne plus 4 companies British Cin C Wellington 1st Brigade Hill ( British right may be omitted if desired ) 1/5th Northumberland (Gosling Green) 944 men 42 FIGS LINE 5 skirmishers 1/9th E. Norfolk (yellow) 761 men 36 FIGS LINE 2 skirmishers 1/38th 1st staffs (yellow) 953 men 42 FIGS LINE 5 skirmishers 2nd Brigade Ferguson 36th Foot Herefordshire (Gosling green) 591 men 30 FIGS LINE 1/40th 2nd Somersetshire (Buff) 923 men 42 FIGS LINE 3 skirmishers 1/71st Highland Light Infantry (Buff) 935 men 42 FIGS LINE 3 skirmishers 3rd Brigade Nightingall 29th Foot Worcestershire (yellow) 616 men 30 FIGS LINE 3 skirmishers 1/82nd Prince of wales vol (yellow) 904 men 36 FIGS LINE 6 skirmishers 4th Brigade Bowes 1/6th 1st warwickshire (yellow) 943 men 42 FIGS LINE 6 skirmishers 1/32nd Cornwall (White) 870 men 36 FIGS LINE 6 skirmishers 5th Brigade Crauford (wide left may be omitted if desired) 1/45th Nottinghamshire (Dark Green) 915 men 42 FIGS LINE 4 skirmishers 91st Foot Argyleshire, kilted in 1808 (yellow) 917 men 42 FIGS 4 skirmishers 6th Brigade Fane 1/50th West Kents (Black) 945 men 42 FIGS LINE 5 skirmishers 5/60th Rifles 604 men 30 FIGS VETERAN 2/95th Rifles 456 men ( 4 companies) 24 FIGS VETERAN 7th Brigade Anstruther 2/9th E.Norfolk (yellow) 633 men 30 FIGS LINE 2/43rd Light Infantry Monmouthshire (White) 721 men 36 FIGS LINE 2/52nd Light Infantry Oxfordshire (Buff) 654 men 30 FIGS LINE 2/97th Queens own (Blue) 695 men 30 FIGS LINE 8th Brigade Ackland Reinforcements landed later ? roll for none arrival ? 2nd Foot Queens royal (Blue) 731 men 36 FIGS LINE 20th Foot E. devons (Yellow) only 7 and 1/2 companies landed 401 men 20 FIGS LINE 1/95th Rifles 2 companies 200 men 10 FIGS VETERAN Portugese detachment Trant ( wide left may be omitted if desired ) 4th portugese artillery 210 men 12th Regt 605 men 30 FIGS CONSCRIPT 21st Regt 605 men 30 FIGS CONSCRIPT 24th Regt 304 men 18 FIGS CONSCRIPT Porto Cacadores 562 men 24 FIGS 2nd LINE Cavalry X Taylor 20th Light Dragoons (yellow) 240 men 12 FIGS VETERAN SUPERIOR MOUNTS 6th Portugese 104 men total 12 FIGS 2ND LINE ? CONSCRIPT ? 11th Portugese 50 men 12th Portugese 104 men Lisbon Police Cavalry 41 men Artillery Robe 2 and 1/2 companies 226 men with 16 guns Sources Osprey Campaign 90 Vimerio 1808 Oman Vol 1 A history of the peninsular war page 242 onwards ISBN 1-85367-588-1

Updated. Thats it for now folks. Any ideas on unit grading and varying the brigade arrival times to 'make more of a game' as the french are really up against it here... Playing Rolica again this weekend, shouldn't take long ! :D

Simon, How did the Rolica refight go? Do you have a breakdown for which companies were in which battalions of the Grenadiers Reunis? I'm sure I've seen one somewhere, but can't recall where (might have been Oman). Alternatively, do you know how many companies were Legere and how many Ligne? Thanks, RtL

The 4 battalions of reserve grenadiers were quote ' formed from all the units of Junots Corps' . I'm sorry but I don't know the exact formation/groupings of the companies involved. However Oudinots famous grenadier division tended to have 2 companies of Carabineer (or even sometimes later in its evolution Voltigeurs) to four companies of grenadier companies from 2 or more Line regts, presumably 1st and 2nd battalion grenadier companies. I would hazzard a complete guess that this would allow the light trained troops of each battalion to act as a skirmish screen if required. As even the Foot Chausseurs of the Imperial Guard did this sometimes ! Rolica was great fun, the french won this time by winning the initiative, firing one volley with all four regts and even the swiss fired ! The 6 gun artillery battery was lethal, all the french had pretty good die rolls including a double six that killed the lead brigadier Nightingale. The two british battalions return fire was what you would term 'desultory' . The French then promptly changed from HOLD to WITHDRAW (my experimental house rule) and retreated off board in two more moves, thus winning by causing more casullties. The other British brigades had only just got moving. I think Geoff just wanted to get down to the Port and talk WWII :shock:

Grenadiers Reunis (and Carabineers) for Vimerio. These have been finished a month now, (ok so some have't been drybrushed yet, but at least you can seen what a difference it makes to those shiny new uniforms! The photograph was taken by my son on Fathers Day with his camera that I paid 1/2 for ! :D >

Ramc, What make of figures are they? Regards Malcolm

The figures are all Elite Miniatures 28mm. The website is currently being updated. Peter Morbey is the owner, Tel 01302 530038. His address for ordres is 26 Bowlease Gardens, Bessacar, Doncaster , DN4 6AP Except the two very clean looking ( not yet drybrushed) Carabinner foot officers looking to their right (these are Front Rank), The Carabinner officer on foot with the left flank company in the distance was pinched from an Old Guard Battalion The main body of the units are French infantry in greatcoats UFN 37 'Line Battalion in greatcoats', I've used a few centre company figures without red epaulettes to get some head and leg pose variation into the unit, and there is ALWAYS someone in a unit who loses his kit :D , so I've done a few of the other grenadiers from UFN 12 'Line battalion in campaign dress' with epaulettes and grenadier plumes, and no off white dustcoat. The carabineer officer was pinched from a dragoon regt elite company. Sorry about the size of the photo but I have resized it to 'mailboard size' 640 by something or other...

Hi Simon, Well done - it looks like you have got this just about right I don’t know about actual brigading or regimental organisation either. However, as you suggest, much of the information is available from Oman Vol I. It is possible to work out the following possible structure – and Simon’s brigading in his photos looks very credible. Oman suggests that the grenadiers reunis comprised a force of some 2,100 in total - made up from all of the 18 French battalions in Junot’s force (i.e. excluding foreign regiments). Although Vimeiro took place in 1808 it is worth while bearing in mind that Junot’s force was brought together in late 1807. It is possible to make a rough and ready analysis (based upon dividing each battalion by a denominator of 9 - given that French battalion organisation was based upon 9 companies prior to the reorganisation in 1808). However, whether the relatively small battalions had all companies present during the invasion is debatable. A further issue that my reading of Oman cannot resolve is the actual composition of the four “regiments” - i.e. which companies were allotted to which battalion. But, again, a very basic organisational and numerical analysis may suggest that the 1st division may have provided one battalion of grenadiers, the second division two battalions of grenadiers / carabiniers and the 3rd division the remaining battalion of grenadiers / carabiniers – although this last point is pure conjecture! 1st general Delaborde 15th line, 3rd battalion, 1033; (115) = 6 figures 47th ditto, 2nd battalion, 1210; (134) = 6 “ 70th ditto, 1st and 2nd battalions, 2299; (255) = 8 “ 86th ditto, 1st and 2nd battalions, 2116. (235) = 8 “ 2nd division, general Loison 2nd Léger, 3rd battalion, 1255; (139) = 8 “ 4th ditto, 3rd, battalion, 1196; (133) = 8 “ 12th ditto, 3rd battalion, 1302; (145) = 8 “ 15th ditto, 3rd battalion, 1314; (146) = 8 “ 32nd line, 3rd battalion, 1265; (141) = 8 “ 58th ditto, 3rd battalion, 1394. (155) = 8 “ 3rd division, general Travot 31st Léger, 3rd battalion, 653; (73) = 4 “ 32nd ditto, 3rd battalion, 983; (109) = 6 “ 26th line 3rd battalion, 537; (60) = 4 “ 66th 3rd and 4th battalions, 1004; (112) = 6 “ 82nd ditto, 3rd battalion, 861. (96) = 4 “ The above calculation gives a total of approximately 2047 (taking into account rounding) - so not far from the 2,100 in total that Oman suggests. If a fairly loose rounding is adopted for the numbers of figures contributed by each battalion, or pair of battalions, then a total of 110 figures for the two “regiments” would appear to be quite reasonable. Of course, many of the wargamers who post on this site have battalions in 6 companies each of 6 figures, so it would make sense to create two “regiments” and “four battalions” totalling 18 companies of 6 figures: i.e. two battalions of 30 and two of 24 figures (108 figures in total). Hope this is of interest Ant

Thanks Ant, thats an interesting breakdsown of the units imvolved. I've 'cheated' a little by basing mine in the usual 6's so that they can be used for later battles as the normal grenadier companies. You can see from the picture that I've simply added an officer and drummer to each 24 man unit to give them something to form up on and make up the numbers to 26 figures in each of 4 battalions = 104figures = 2080men. Back to the British tomorrow...

Ant/Sprunglin, That's a very nice piece of detective work - pretty much the information that I was looking for in my earlier post. My only comment on it would be that, from my work on British organisation (and I'm making the assumption that the French also did this), flank companies tended to be kept as near full strength as possible - although since they contained the fitter and more committed men, would have fewer stragglers and deserters anyway. When posted away from the battalion on detached service, it was the norm for flank companies to be made up to full strength if at all possible, with anyone too sick/injured to work/march being swapped with the best men from the centre companies. I can't recall the exact numbers, but the grenadier/carabinier companies had a lower establishment than the fusiliers/chasseurs, which would make this process less painful on the centre companies (something like 90-ish all ranks as against 120). On that basis, could Oman have slightly overestimated the two "regiments" to start with, by simply assuming all companies were of equal strength and working on 1/9 of the overall total? Unless they were "beefed up" these 18 companies should have had around 1,600 all ranks, plus a few attached staff, giving battalions of 400 or so (3 bases of 6 figures, plus 2 command). Interested in anyone's thoughts/comments. RtL

So you are saying that I may have painted to many Grenadiers ! Comment (1) Deleted for the sake of decency. Comment (2) Well at least a dab of green and yellow on three of the bases of six figures will give me some close order voltigeurs. Sigh... Thanks Ronan , :roll: Only joking :D

Simon, No, no! :shock: My point was aimed more at the fact that the flank copanies would have been nearer to full strength than the others. I've no idea if Oman got it wrong or not, I'm just saying that the establishment of a grenadier/carabinier company in the 9-company organisation was smaller than that of a fusilier/chasseur company. In fact, the re-organisation to 6 companies was supposed to happen in February 1808, so they might have changed. You can never have too many figures in a unit! :D Don't panic, Mr Mainwaring! RtL

Simon, And don't forget your apparently very useful strategy I've used a few centre company figures without red epaulettes to get some head and leg pose variation into the unit, and there is ALWAYS someone in a unit who loses his kit Your battalions / regiments as organised look very good to me, but I think I'd personally go with your earlier suggestion of mixing in the companies of carabiniers with grenadiers in at least three of the battalions rather than organising them as a separate battalion Well done, they look great - and also very useful for many other actions including Funtes D'Onoro Ant

Bump, to top of discussion. All figures ready but yet to fight it out, probably sometime in November. I'm a bit behind schedule due to Gold Beach and WW2 fanatical mates ! :D

During recent prebattle reading noticed in Osprey Campaign 90 Vimeiro 1808 that Junots cavalry of Nov 1807 are listed as 26th Chasseurs which became the first provisional, also listed 1st Dragoons 261 scarlet 3rd Dragoons 236 scarlet 4th Dragoons 262 scarlet 5th Dragoons 249 scarlet 9th Dragoons 257 crimson 15th Dragoons 245 pink Would it be too much to presume that these became the 3rd 4th and 5th provisional dragoons ? I'm going to rate mine as LINE with poor mounts as the 20th Light Dragoons rode at them and burst through the French Dragoons "who did not know what they were about" . Stone walled fields where the british cavalry were counterattacked can be seen in pictures recently posted in the Gen de Brigade section. British Guns distributed as follows. Robe on hill has 6 model guns in 3 pairs.Ackland has 2 model guns. There should be no portuguese guns with Trant, I've removed them since the pictures were taken :( French Guns, 3 models with Charlot and Thomieres (7) 5 model guns with Taviel centre reserve, 2 model guns with Solignac (3) and 2 model guns with Brennier (3) Battle this weekend :D