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Cornet- 01-14-2009
Favored AWI Campaigns / Battles
I'm just curious which campaigns and specific battles (or skirmishes) you favor, and why.
As a new reader here, it seems to me that many (perhaps most) discussions tend toward the southern campaign or toward the Saratoga campaign -- both significant for sure, but not exclusively so. Thus, I am just curious if my observation is false; or if true, why these preferences exist.
Ronan the Librarian- 01-14-2009
Cornet,
Interesting observation. I think there are two reasons for the preference for Saratoga and the South.
1) The armies were small, and thus easy/cheap to build and paint; also, these campaigns are both well served by Perry/Foundry, who seem to be the "plat du jour" in AWI figures at the moment. For much the same reason, the actions in and around Boston in 1775 are also popular. In fact, it's worth noting that almost all rule sets usually include two from Bunker Hill, Cowpens and Guilford in their scenario section at the back.
2) Both armies had their moments in these campaigns (indeed, both ended - unusually - in American victories), whereas the 1776-1777 campaigns were pretty one-sided, Trenton apart. This makes them more interesting for wargames - ie both sides will usually have a chance of winning. After the Continental Army gets tougher in 1778-1779, there is very little fighting in the main theatre because half of the British force (including some of its best units) gets sent to the W Indies.
Those are certainly my reasons for picking those campaigns. As it happens, all three of the BG mega-games we have had here in the UK (two at the National Army Museum, and this year at South Mimms) have been from the 1776-1778 period and the main theatre - precisely because those are the only actions that you can really invoke for big, multi-player games in this conflict. However, we may look at a mini-campaign, or series of small games, for the next one.
RtL
Giles- 01-15-2009
I agree with Ronan. Also, Bunker Hill and Guilford Courthouse are both excellent battles to start off a collection. The latter in particular gives you a wide range of troops that can be doubled up for other battles (and in the British case, some of the more ubiquitous British regiments). That said, often you find people new to the period who go straight into collecting the 1777/78 British army, perhaps because they have come to the AWI from Naps or the SYW and naturally gravitate towards the large forces
Cornet- 01-15-2009
For what it's worth, I just visited Guilford Courthouse battlefield for the first time three weeks ago. As an American, it was harrowing to envision the British ranks marching across the fields toward the American militia positions. The site's modern topography, moderately wooded, still lends itself to easy visualization.
The Guilford Courthouse battlefield itself was much, much smaller than the impression I'd gotten from maps. I could have run from the NC militia line (first), through the VA militia line (second), to the final Continental line in about five minutes ... probably much closer to 2 minutes if I had the British Army bearing down on me. So ... I guess I can see why the scale of these southern battles might be more manageable and thus more attractive to players.
I never thought of Burgoyne's army as small, but I supposed compared to Howe's main army, it was. Because of the tweaked campaign uniforms, collecting an army to field at Saratoga would seem to limit one to that campaign. The highly modified uniforms of the southern campaign seem similarly limiting.
Is there anything about specific battles that you find compelling enough to play out on your tabletop? I can accept the rationale that the historical outcomes of the southern and Saratoga campaigns' battles were less one-sided; however, given better generalship, weren't many of the battles in other campaigns winnable? And given the war's outcome, it's arguable that many of the engagements were tactical losses for the Americans, yet still strategic wins (e.g. Guilford Courthouse). I imagine asymmetrical goals could compensate for disparities in unit training, firepower, and morale.
I'm still exploring the hobby, or at least this quarter of it. My wargaming experience is principally as a teen playing Avalon Hill WW2 games -- Panzer Blitz, Squad Leader, etc. My frame of reference for rules and conditions of victory revolve around those games -- thus, my mental stratification of victory conditions into "decisive", "moderate", and "marginal." Well, and into "tactical loss/strategic victory" because it seems to suit the big picture in AWI.
I am also, however, an AWI historian with a fairly narrow focus on a corner of the Philadelphia campaign.
Tarleton 1971- 01-17-2009
The Southern Campaign 1780-1781 & Saratoga Campaign 1777
Personally I like the smaller fights.... Just me and my dad or a few close friends. It also lends to an easy day.... less anxiety about my two year-old princess tornado hovering at an edge of the board unseen making off with a key piece of artillery to play with.
My favorite battles are
- Guilford Courthouse (5 relatives fought there in the continental dragoons and Virginia Militia)
- The battles before the Yorktown Siege. ( I make a yearly pilgramage)
- Camden 1780
- Savannah 1779
- Freeman's Farm
I would prefer a campaign approach to putting lead on the table.... as a battle generator. Using a modified "Liberty" board game (Columbia Games) approach... as a battle generator.
Cornet- 01-17-2009
Re: The Southern Campaign 1780-1781 & Saratoga Campaign
Oh, an ancestral association is wholly understandable for campaign/battle preference ... as is the danger of non-combatants capturing your artillery.
I would prefer a campaign approach to putting lead on the table.... as a battle generator. Using a modified "Liberty" board game (Columbia Games) approach... as a battle generator.
I'm not certain what you mean with this. Perhaps you could expound.
Tarleton 1971- 01-18-2009
answer to query
I am the what if guy.....
I prefer to start at the historical beginning of a campaign to see if I can do it better than the "real McCoy".
for instance - I would like to see if I could do it better than Cornwallis did during the Yorktown campaign and not get boxed in.
A campaign system to generate battles ... is something I learned with "sport of Kings" from "Warfare in the Age of Reason". Then the battle can take on a grander perspective, impact or meaning.
I have to ask how many time do you want to re-fight Guilford Courthouse?
Tarleton 1971- 01-18-2009
Re: The Southern Campaign 1780-1781 & Saratoga Campaign
Oh, an ancestral association is wholly understandable for campaign/battle preference ... as is the danger of non-combatants capturing your artillery.
Yes finding out that the Queen's Ranger's Artillery 3lbder while insignificant in measure to most guns would have made a lovely flank shot on the 2nd Continental Dragoons. But had wandered off the board (AWOL) and was combating a 8lb mini-Doxie and a fisher price polar bear. ... I don't know whether to be proud of my little general or worried !
Yes I am very proud of the ancestral connection ( Capt. Thomas Watkins) who with Col. William Washington rode down one of the bn of Foot Guards (my favorite regiment). In fact we have a letter from the late Colonel and a sworn statement from a dragoon citing the good captain for "courage and audacity" on the field that day.
Cornet- 01-28-2009
I recently saw that Wm. Washington was assigned to
the 4th Light Dragoons at Valley Forge. I had always believed him to be part of the 1st or 3rd. With which regiment did your Capt. Watkins serve?
I share your pride in that one of my direct antecedents answered the Lexington Alarm. I know he served in the Massachusetts militia (during the war, rising to the rank of sergeant), but I imagine his association with the Lexington Alarm suggests he was a minuteman. Anyone may feel free to disprove my inference regarding his minuteman status. We learned in school that those who answered the Lexington Alarm were minutemen, but as I've found through the years, everything they taught us wasn't necessarily true.
Anywho ... I seem to be kinda screwed in the BG! world since my wargaming interests lie principally in the context of the Philadelphia campaign. There is almost no reference to the Philadelphia campaign or its constituent battles in the rule book. The additional scenario books (1-2) do offer Brandywine, Germantown, and Monmouth; but there are a myriad of other battles worth playing, and most are a more manageable scale (e.g. Cooch's Bridge/Iron Hill, Fort Mercer, Crooked Billet, Gloucester, Barren Hill, and Paoli).
I see what you mean about playing out a campaign, that is generally my preference too. I find that manner of play tends to offer more purpose than an immediate tactical win. It also inspires me to read more. Hrmm, just wondering if anyone would like to collaborate on a campaign design for the Philadelphia campaign. Vaughan, I'm looking at you ... but of course others are welcome too.
Tarleton 1971- 01-28-2009
I will get back to you
I understand and will be getting back you cornet.
Ronan the Librarian- 01-28-2009
There is almost no reference to the Philadelphia campaign or its constituent battles in the rule book. The additional scenario books (1-2) do offer Brandywine, Germantown, and Monmouth; but there are a myriad of other battles worth playing, and most are a more manageable scale (e.g. Cooch's Bridge/Iron Hill, Fort Mercer, Crooked Billet, Gloucester, Barren Hill, and Paoli).
Eclaireur and I are working on a third scenario book, probably to emerge some time later this year, which will focus on smaller actions at a 1:5 figure:man ratio. If you want me to consider the above small actions as a "wish list" I'm sure we can accommodate some of them - Fort Mercer and Barren Hill are definitely on the list already, and I know one of the BAR guys who used to organise Cooch's Bridge re-enactments, but I'm not sure Paoli would be much of a game. We'll see, anyway.
mikeb- 01-28-2009
I actually prefer scenarios for AWI. At 1:20 (or less) scale, these battles are perfect for the table top. As for winning or loosing ... It matters little. It is just as much fun to fight the good fight at Camden ... And try to do at least a little better than Gage. :)
My favorite scenarios from BG! are: Bunker Hill ... Guilford ... Freeman's Farm ... White Plains ... and Monmouth (the later). If your looking for suggestions for scenario book three: PRINCETON!!
Also the BG! scenarios provide a templete for army collection and painting. Sort of keeps me on track. Today we had 12" of snow (in Ohio). I managed to shovel off the driveway and finish 16 American riflemen in hunting coats. Next up are 24 British Grenadiers.
Mike B
Cornet- 01-28-2009
Eclaireur and I are working on a third scenario book, probably to emerge some time later this year, which will focus on smaller actions at a 1:5 figure:man ratio. If you want me to consider the above small actions as a "wish list" I'm sure we can accommodate some of them - Fort Mercer and Barren Hill are definitely on the list already, and I know one of the BAR guys who used to organise Cooch's Bridge re-enactments, but I'm not sure Paoli would be much of a game. We'll see, anyway.
Excellent! Fort Mercer is a tight scenario; it should be easy to design. Cooch's Bridge is another good one, easy encapsulation -- I definitely recommend inclusion. Billingsport might be worth consideration too. There are others, but I'll give it some more thought.
The way I see Paoli working is that tabletop battles are speculative trajectories -- otherwise we just recount a canned sequence; so another general (the American player) might have been more diligent than Wayne about posting sentries and dispatching scouting parties; or what if Grey hadn't ordered flints removed?
Paoli's outcome can also inform the resolve and morale of the Pennsylvania Line when it meets the 2nd Light Infantry again at Germantown. This continuity from encounter to encounter becomes very important when playing a campaign. If Wayne's troops escape humiliation at Paoli, are they still dauntless at Germantown? How does that effect Germantown's outcome?
Cornet- 01-28-2009
As for winning or loosing ... It matters little. It is just as much fun to fight the good fight at Camden ... And try to do at least a little better than Gage. :)
Yes, exactly!
Axebreaker- 04-09-2009
Re: The Southern Campaign 1780-1781 & Saratoga Campaign
Personally I like the smaller fights.... Just me and my dad or a few close friends. It also lends to an easy day.... less anxiety about my two year-old princess tornado hovering at an edge of the board unseen making off with a key piece of artillery to play with.
My favorite battles are
- Guilford Courthouse (5 relatives fought there in the continental dragoons and Virginia Militia)
- The battles before the Yorktown Siege. ( I make a yearly pilgramage)
- Camden 1780
- Savannah 1779
- Freeman's Farm
I would prefer a campaign approach to putting lead on the table.... as a battle generator. Using a modified "Liberty" board game (Columbia Games) approach... as a battle generator.
Not that it is important,but with the possible exception of Freeman's Farm I would not say these were "small"engagements,but at least medium sized to large for Camden. :)
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