Questions on the British Grenadier Firetable

Hello Andy! Nice blog, I've had a peek previously too :wink: . You have made some interesting points on the musketry hits table and unit-sizes and of course made a contribution to the Musket-Fire-Accuracy-Debate. I read your post this morning and have let it mull through the day... I should first say that my qualification to comment is merely that I know I like the rules! So; - Here are some Easter Sunday Contemplations: The figure scale within BG! varies, the effect of this is that both small and large engagements can be played out using pretty much the same base-unit-size, which seems (to me) to be 16-24ish figures, which are the 3rd,4th lines on the musketry hit table. 12figure units and 32 figure units occasionally appear, but 16-24 seems to be the base-unit-size. It may not seem it whilst Rolling-The-Dice-In-Ernest; but - with this size units - it is only with the 3DP's(and another adjustment if 22figs+) that the chances of firing and not getting hits is greater than scoring hits, thus: 16figs Probability when firing without adjustment at an unadjusted target at effective range: No DP’s 16.66% no effect, 83.33% causes hits 1 DP 27.77% no effect, 72.22% causes hits 2 DP’s 41.16% no effect, 58.34% causes hits 3 DP’s 58.34% no effect, 41.66% causes hits 24figs probability when firing without adjustment at an unadjusted target at effective range: No DP’s 8.33% no effect, 91.66% hits, % more likely to hit than 16fig unit = 8.44% 1 DP 16.66% no effect, 83.33% hits, % more likely to hit than 16fig unit = 11.11% 2 DP’s 27.77% no effect, 72.22% hits, % more likely to hit than 16fig unit = 13.83% 3 DP’s 41.66% no effect, 58.34% hits, % more likely to hit than 16fig unit = 17.18% Unsurprisingly DP’s cause more effect on smaller units. If you have a 32figure unit on the table, opposition of less than 20fig units seems unlikely to stay there for long. The 42nd in the Monmouth scanrio are a steamroller if fielded as one 32fig Btn once the Americans start taking casualties... The effectiveness of fire from one 32fig unit compared to two 16fig units seems to relate to how much lead is in the air at the same time... a lot! I have some large units myself :D but tend to fight them as separate wings and (as skirmishers fire separately anyway) I can’t recall a volley from more than 32figs. The DP’s accumulate too quickly at 35+figs, and distorts their effect... it just seems to me that over 32figs it doesn’t hang together so well... I’m not sure there is any mileage in adjusting the hit table as 40figs firing at 8 is going to disperse them... BUT, if there are lots of figures in the units they do look good... so... Suggestions? Try just not counting some of them, so that 32figs are 24 really; I suspect this would be a fairly normal 6mm technique - to put a lot more figures on the same size base and count one firer/casualty as Ľ base rather than figs? Interesting points though..., here are a couple of slightly pertinent websites I stumbled on today (apologies if they are already familiar): A re-enactor loading and firing as Brown Bess three times in 46 seconds, jolly impressive, but how long would his cartridge box last at that rate??? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJMbxZ1k9NQ&NR=1 And A piece on musketry accuracy rates; can’t vouch for this follows research but he certainly appears to have put some effort into it... http://www.willegal.net/iron_brigade/musket.pdf Present;... Fire! GJ

GJ Andy and I have done some of this stuff via PM as he suggests. The key point about larger units sizes that I would make is that strict enforcement of the firing arcs + terrain features (sometimes preventing full deploymnt of such large units) usually prevents the 'death star' effect of large units. On a similar point about unit size, if you fight one of the scenarios with larger cavalry units you will find that 9+ figs of horse can have quite a devastating effect. When we play tested the Spencer's Ordinary scenario from SB2 we were therefore quite strict about DP effects from fences + other terrain effects. But in the end shouldn't the rules cater for the possibility that a 32 fig 42nd Highlanders or a 12 fig Tarleton's Legion should sweep all before them ? Isn't that what happened at Long Island and Camden ? EC

EC & Andy, I agree wholeheartedly on the firing-arc and terrain; it can be tricky to actually use large units simply because of the space they occupy, and there most definately should be provision for the 42nd to chase everyone off the table! (I wasn't having a winge at having to face them - it was splendid stuff to watch!) My point was that if most units were of that magnitude it would seem to distort the DP's - a unit of 40 firing at another unit of 40 is still likely to result in 3DP's+casualties - which will prevent units from effectively charging eachother - even if they are both big... And; that if most units are over 30figs there is little point fielding a small unit against them; so they would need to be amalgamated - as the smaller militia units already are in the GCH scenario... I don't feel there is a need to adjust the firing table for the presence of one big unit; it already does the job, but if most units are big re-allocating the lines on the existing chart may be more effective than adding another line on the bottom... ? GJ

Thanks for the comments. I tend to agree that strict enforcement of terrain/DPs can counter the big units. Maybe I need to have move scenery on table to restrict them more? GJs comments re what to do if ALL units are large is more my issue. My example of 1x40 vs 2x20 is maybe explained by the coordinated volleys of a single mass having more 'effect' than several smaller volleys? But I agree that lots of 40 fig units might not work. Maybe need to look at some of the suggestions re counting 1 fig as 2 etc. I'm sure there's a way of doing it so things don't get skewed and the rules continue to operate as written. That way I still get to deploy my big units! I'm off work this week so will try and pull something together and finally add the American OB to my Guilford thread! Cheers Andy

Whilst this point was made in the previous discussions, it may be worth repeating it here for the benefit of those not familiar with those discussions. Historically, "big" units did not really happen very often in the AWI and we need to distinguish between the rarity of fresh, undamaged "monster" units on the battlefield, and "large" units on the tabletop which are purely a result of lowering the figure:man ratio (and which might only be representing a typical 2-300 strong battalion). The latter is almost an inevitable by-product of the reduced pressure on space and budget from using smaller/cheaper figure sizes, such as 15mm, 10mm and 6mm. The question seems to be, do we force historically large units to operate in wings when fielded at 1:10 or lower (eg a 500+ man unit fires as two units of 250+), and/or do we regard the extra figures produced by lower figure:man ratio as an aesthetic "fiction" and simply have the same number of figures actually firing as we would with the 1:20 option? (Clearly the latter would be easy to operate where both sides had units of about the same size). The only big Crown units were the multi-battalion 71st (which soon got whittled down to the same size as other line battalions!), the 42nd (which maintained a two-battalion format even when reduced to 5-600 from the original 1,000), and the four converged flank battalions, who were most typically at 5-700 men each. Of these latter, the Lights tended to operate in groups of 3-4 companies, the Grenadiers in wings, or occasionally divisions/pairs of companies. The more experienced line battalions would also operate in two wings of anything from 100-180 men each. The exception to all this was the Hesse Cassel contingent, who seem to have maintained 5-600 strong battalions in the field for most of the war - could this have been another explanation for their slow movement in the field and on the march? The Continentals had variable sizes of battalion according to State, year, and recruitment potential, until Steuben regularised the establishment at 160 files maximum (320 men = 16 figures, about the same size as a typical British line battalion). Of course there were plenty of occasions when entire Continental brigades only just managed that sort of number and, from talking to EC, I get the impression that the optimum size of the tabletop battalion in the rules - 16-20 figures - was intended to reflect this reality, hence the option for a variable figure-man ratio for smaller actions/weaker units.

Incidentally - on the subject of firing sub-units separately, during the Long Island game, several new players were advised to fire their artillery pieces one at a time, rather than as a battery, as it gave the player multiple chances to roll, instead of one (especially where a "double six" might have been important). Whilst there were few "grand batteries" in AWI battles, where this might be debated historically, it did smack slightly of rulesmanship - I wouldn't put it as strongly as gamesmanship.> I never noticed that I must admit and it never occurred to me in all the games I have played. I much prefer the occasional bigger batteries as you have more chance of getting a hit but 1 or 2 gun model batteries are more the norm. I do admit though to throwing the dice even when there is no chance of scoring a hit just in case a double six comes up. As Terry Pratchett once said "million to one chances happen nine times out of ten" regards Paul

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