General de Brigade

[Timmo]

Am I right in thinking neither were carried in the Peninsular by the French cavalry?

[Eugene de B]

Timmo,

This is a very hard question to answer. In the early period, probably. Later, possibly but more dependent on the type of cavalry, then there is the question of regulations and whether they were complied with.

Eugene

[Chris Ginn]

According to Digby Smith (napoleonic wars data book)When the British captured Retiro on the west side of Madrid, they captured the Eagle of the 13e Drag Regt which was in store there. So at least one eagle was taken to Spain, but not carried.
His sources were Oman, Martinien and Charrie.

I think I remember reading somewhere that the 1e Cuir Regt was ambushed on the retreat from Moscow cut to peices and lost its Eagle, although whether this was from the Regt. baggage train or in combat was not clear.

I must admit that I can see little tactical use for carrying an eagle in battle, as the tactical unit is the Squadron, which would presumably rally on the Squadron fanion. Unless the eagle is used as a fanion for the 1e Sqdrn (pretty expensive bauble for that purpose), I think they were probably for Victory parades up the streets of Moscow, Madrid, Berlin and Vienna.

In Spain, where the main duties of the Dragoons were patrolling and anti guerilla activities, with occasional use of Spanish armies for speed bumps, I can't see that there would have been much use for them.
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Chris G

[colinjallen]

Didn't Marbot claim that his new regiment (7th Hussars) were carrying the old eagle of the 23rd Chasseurs during the 1815 Belgian campaign? Mind you, I am not sure that one can believe a word that Marbot wrote!

[Ronan the Librarian]

[Chris Ginn]

"Weren't eagles issued on a squadron basis (analogous to the infantry battalion) initially? Presumably that was why."

Probably, but if that was still the case in 1812, then eagles captured or lost would be reported as 'an' rather than 'the'. Didn't Napoleon then reduce them to one per regiment so that there weren't 'hordes' of eagles being captured. I think that change came about before the Spanish campaign.

I know British cavalry did not take their standards on campaign, they were reserved for 'ceramonials'.
At one per regiment, it seems likely that the French adopted the same practice.

Does anybody know how many eagles the Russians captured in 1812? That should give a good indication of how many were available.
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Chris G

[colinjallen]

The reduction in the number of Eagles was ordered in 1808; before that date, Eagles were issued to each battalion and each squadron. However, there is good evidence that some units (all of the examples that I have found were infantry) still had more than one Eagle per regiment as late as 1811. Marbot claimed that the 7th Hussars had both their own Eagle and that of his old regiment (23rd Chasseurs) in 1815 and that the older eagle, which is in Le Musee de l'Armee was the one actually carried on the campaign. It certainly has a "7" attached to the plinth with clear marks of previously having had "23".

[colinjallen]

The Eagle of the 13th Dragoons was indeed found in Madrid, deposite dthere because the regiment was away operating in detachments on anti-guerilla duties. Perhaps this role was too considered to be too risky for the Eagle.

Also this: "During the retreat from Portugal in May 1809, two French regiments lost their eagles: the 47th line buried that of its Third Battalion at Senafelle (Spain) by order of its Colonel Donadieu, and the 18th Dragoons made their 3 eagles disappear, one of which remained in the possession of an officer imprisoned in England until it was given by him to Marshal Davout in 1815."
So there we have a French dragoon regiment with 3 Eagles in 1809.

[captain chook]

Why 3 eagles for a cavalry regiment when there are 4 squadrons?

CC

[colinjallen]

Only 3 squadrons of the 18th Dragoons were present with the army.