General de Brigade

schultz · Joined: 27 Nov 2008 Posts: 35 Location: Melbourne Australia

I now have had the opportunity to paint up some Perry French and Victrix British. The Perry Brothers have thought the whole issue through very thoroughly. Carefully moulded, each set contains the appropriate number and types of figures to complete a battalion, albeit aimed at GBD rules, and are mounted on small round discs, easy to mount on multiple bases (as provided). The figures are in a pose that suits wargaming rather than display, but thats what they are designed for. The sculpting, although some have argued lacks some of the detail of the metal figures, assists in mass painting for those larger GBD armies.

Victrix has made a reasonable attempt. No one can argue that the sculpts are not up to scratch. They are. But for a wargamer basing is difficult on standard multiple bases and requires surgery particularly when there are so many poses. The figures require to much trimming and repair ( flash lines or moulding lines are prominent) and it would have been useful to include flank companies in each set. It is necessary to purchase more figures than you might need or want to include the flank companies. The product has not been thought through as well as the Perry's. Pity, it will be interesting to see the Perry effort when their British appear.

Schultz

Zephro · Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Posts: 14

I agree. The Perry's are fantastic.

The Victrix are good but flawed. The separate Flank companies rather than doing say 1 sprue of Flank with 3 sprues Centre etc. Does seem a bit silly. There are just too many different poses for 1 box to look like a cohesive unit, there's too many drummers etc. So you get 54 but don't use them all.

Also weren't colours carried by Sergeants rather than officers? As the standard models are wearing the same coats/sashes as officers...

It's stupid but I also got annoyed that 1 in 12 has to have a bandaged head.

Ronan the Librarian · Major Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 833

Well of course the Perrys are past masters of plastic wargame figures through their Games Workshop products, particularly the LotR sets. Plus, their existing 1815 French range provides "extras" and further variants on standard poses. I think the two sets reflect their superior experience in producing sets of Horse & Musket figures.

The Victrix set, by contrast, are almost an extension of WW2 plastics, with multi-pose figures. IMO, whilst ideal for skirmish gaming, they are not ideal for mainstream H&M tabletop actions, which call for large(ish) units of figures in a similar pose, or undertaking a similar action (eg advancing, charging, or firing). Without disliking them at all, I also have to say that I find the faces cartoonish, and some of the poses ungainly - either in themselves, or in terms of how troops would carry themselves in the Napoleonic period. For example, there is one figure - I think it used to be on the "greens" or "gallery" page of their website - advancing with the musket pointed muzzle down (rather in the style that troops in Northern Ireland carried the SLR when on patrol). Now the Brown Bess, with bayonet attached, was around 6 feet long, and even a Guardsman would struggle not to keep catching the bayonet, or even the muzzle, in the ground whilst moving forward. Even modern re-enactors are aware of this, and (when not at the charge) either advance with trailed or ordered arms, or at the high porte.

As regards the officer and sergeant figures carrying the flags in the Victrix set: in the British service, the colours were usually carried by the two most junior officers, in terms of date of commission (but often also by age), called ensigns. Each ensign was protected by one or two colour sergeants (armed with spontoons), and occasionally, in battle, one of these sergeants might take up the flag if the ensign was hit. In rare cases, where there was a shortage of officers within the battalion, and they were all needed to be with their companies, the colours might be entrusted to sergeants. Thus, neither figure is wrong per se, but the officer would be the norm. Despite having officers of the rank (and title) of ensign, almost all other European armies entrusted the colour(s) to a senior, veteran NCO, who would be a mature man of proven courage and strength. In a few armies, such as the French, such men might occasionally be promoted to officer rank as a reward, despite being otherwise unqualified in some respect (eg illiterate).

I share the dislike of figures with bandaged heads - there seems to be a compulsion among figure manufacturers to include them in all H&M ranges, as though such injuries were as common as shaving cuts. In fact, a head wound in this era would usually be disabling, if not outright lethal. A plain bare head, or better still a forage cap, would be much more useful and it's interesting to see that there are Pokalem heads in the Perry pack.
_________________
You can lead a horse to water, but a toy soldier can no longer be lead (due to Health & Safety Regulations).

Zephro · Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Posts: 14

I thought the colours were carried by the colour sergeants.

Also new pics of Plastic French Heavy Cavalry from the Perrys. The three ups look great.

Ronan the Librarian · Major Joined: 21 Jul 2004 Posts: 833

Ah, no. So called because they were designated to protect the colours. Each company had one, although only four were used at any one time. The rank was introduced - and championed by Wellington - to provide better career opportunities and rewards for deserving NCOs.

Although the "reward" was having to stand in the most dangerous place in the line!
_________________
You can lead a horse to water, but a toy soldier can no longer be lead (due to Health & Safety Regulations).

Giles · Captain Joined: 10 Jan 2003 Posts: 794 Location: London

I completely agree with Ronan, re the Victrix plastics - there's just something about them that turns me off, and I'm not about to buy several boxes worth just to have one unit of figures in the same pose.

The Perry plastics, on the other hand, are outstanding. They are a dream to paint and look very good en masse.

Orange · Posted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 6:40 pm Post subject:

Haven't bought either plastic range yet; a major draw of the Perry range, however, is a huge and perfectly compatible range of metal figures that you can mix in for additional variety.

O

Simonk · Joined: 08 Jan 2004 Posts: 17 Location: Bath

I purchased a box of victrix to test and really liked them, the sculpts are really nice and with some imagination you can make a 30 figure battalion at march but with every single figure subtly different in some way, a look I like, yes you do have to get say 5 boxes but foe that you can make 5 battalions Inc skirmishers.

Victrix are also bringing out light infantry heads and addational officers and ensigns for variation

Simon

Zephro · Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Posts: 14

Don't get me wrong I wasn't saying they were bad. I've got 2 boxes and I'm thinking I'll get 1 more box of centre and 1 box of flank. Hopefully I can get 3 battalions of 40 from that. One battalion marching, one battalion firing, one battalion charging/high porte.

Despite little niggles I have with them I'm never going to argue with the price to create a quick core to my new army.

alanmccoubrey · Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 58

Being an old married man with a family to support I am all for a cheaper way of having my Italian 1809 "army" so I'm all for these plastics and now that Victrix have released their early French I'm over the moon. Alan

http://www.sdean-forum.co.uk/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=17365

Zephro · Joined: 23 Sep 2008 Posts: 14

They're looking better than their British. Less mixture of poses and mixing all the flank/centre companies together is a much better plan as it works for battalion games so much better.

I'll get a box to mix in with my Perry's (I have no justification for this but presumably at some point in 1812 there were units with both?)

Also the new Perry British range looks amazing!

Littlearmies · Joined: 29 May 2006 Posts: 95 Location: London

Hi,
I'm probably way behind the news with this one but I saw this today:

http://macpheesminiaturemen.blogspot.com/2009/05/hat-industries-28mm-napoleonic-french.html

And that led to this:

http://www.hat.com/current28.html

Evidently the French are out in June.

Malcolm

alanmccoubrey · Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 58

I am completely in love with my Victrix French, the mix and match that is available from all the different stuff on the sprues is fantastic. Just a change of arms and head make a grenadier into a fusilier sergeant for example.