General de Brigade

[Gentleman Johnny]

Hello,
I tend to use a 1:10 figure ratio, but I like the idea of 1:5.
Just a couple of suggestions from this side of the Atlantic to start it off with:

Gibraltar - if it were to include the British sortie on the Spanish lines in Nov '81 that would save me a job...

St Hellier (Old Jersey) The French invasion/eviction. I have to say I don't know much about it; but looks interesting and presumably didn't involve huge quantities of troops... Were the Britsh Marines?

Any advance on that??

GJ

[Ronan the Librarian]

78th, 83rd and 95th Foot (Pierson's regiment); East Regiment (militia) - in all around 2,000.

French were a mix of "deserters" (officially sanctioned AWOL-ers from one or two line infantry regiments to maintain "plausible deniability" by the French authorities) and jailbirds - about 2,000 in total, of whom only 1,000-1,200 actually landed.
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You can lead a horse to water, but a toy soldier can no longer be lead (due to Health & Safety Regulations).

[Gentleman Johnny]

Thanks!
What is the best accessible source on the 'Old Jersey' campaign?

The French use of jailbirds/deserters seems familiar... Fishguard 1797... it is a shame the story of the French surrendering to ladies in Traditional Welsh Costume thinking them to be Redcoated Regulars is probably somewhat inaccurate
GJ

[Ronan the Librarian]

It's almost an exact replica of the Fishguard fiasco - even to the leader of the expedition being a foreign soldier of fortune with a French commission.

I don't know how accurate and reliable it is, but there are a few chapter of this on-line book that give a reasonably detailed account of the 1781 invasion (you need to scroll down to the relevant historical period).

http://members.societe-jersiaise.org/whitsco/wragg0.htm

My only concern over making it a scenario is the number of buildings, and the fact that they would be French in style, which might not be something an AWI-focused gamer would think worthwhile for one small scenario. Also, I don't know how well BG works for FIBUA, as it didn't really happen in the AWI - even Trenton was fought out in the open.

I'll give it some thought though.
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You can lead a horse to water, but a toy soldier can no longer be lead (due to Health & Safety Regulations).

[Gentleman Johnny]

As ever; a fuller response could not be asked for!
I notice there is a thread over on GdB regarding big BUA's - with no replies to it yet... so it seems no one has successfully atempted this sort of thing yet... Worth a look, but Gibralter looks a firmer bet
GJ

[RMD]

Oi! Get your hands off! Martin and I have already got Fishguard pencilled in to Book 3... OK, we know it's not American and it's late by 20 years, but BG would work just perfectly for a 'what if' Fishguard... I.e. "What if the French didn't just get pissed on Port and Sherry before surrendering en masse...?"...

[Ronan the Librarian]

Mark,

I can see that BG would be more appropriate than Gdeb, but - with no disrespect to either rule set - would not Sharp Practice be ideal for this particular scenario, given the "human" characteristics and the size of the units involved?
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You can lead a horse to water, but a toy soldier can no longer be lead (due to Health & Safety Regulations).

[RMD]

Wossat?! Not heard of it, sorry.

You might be surprised at the size of some of the units involved. Using BG at 1:5 or 1:10 would produce a pretty big game.

The battle also has the advantage of providing 'extended life' for our AWI collections. A surviving coat of the Fishguard Fencibles is very much a 'cut-down' LI-style coat and a contemporary account describes other coats as 'roundabouts', worn with 'slouched hats'. The Pembrokeshire and Cardiganshire militia wore 1768 pattern uniforms, though with longer gaiters than AWI. The Castlemartin Troop, Pembroke Yeomanry meanwhile, although their official uniform was the typical hussar-type LD uniform, it is recorded in an account as being blue coats with buff lapels and crested helmets, reminiscent of Lee's Legion. As for the other side - the French 'Black Legion' is recorded as wearing various captured British light infantry uniforms that had been supplied to the Vendeean rebels and dyed black or brown, with a mixture of headgear... Sounds pretty 'Continental' to me...

[Ronan the Librarian]

What size units are we talking about then?

In terms of "what if....." you could also link it in with the RN mutinies of that year.

Btw, which AWI units would you recommend for those women in national costume who captured all of Tait's men? Recall seeing that on Blue Peter years ago, so it must be true.......
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You can lead a horse to water, but a toy soldier can no longer be lead (due to Health & Safety Regulations).

[Cornet]

When first read the thread, I was afraid this was an Osprey-like obsession with fringe esoterica. I didn't know anything about these battles -- Siege of Gibraltar, Battle of Jersey, and the Fishguard fiasco; so thank you for educating me. They (except the post-war Fishguard fiasco) were clearly major undertakings that probably played a part in encouraging the British toward the negotiating table to end the American War of Independence.

This has led me to another thought -- it would be much more convenient if these scenario books were arranged by campaign. The first two books are all over the place, and I suppose that's okay for initial general offerings. However, given that most hobbyists seem to build armies for a particular theater (particular regiments, particular campaign dress), one or two scenarios will be useful to them and the others not so much. Grouping battles into campaign books would also facilitate campaign play, which to me is desirable.

If nothing else, it might be worth consideration to publish the books with perforated tear-out, hole-punched paged to enable the hobbyist to rearrange the scenarios into campaign binders. Just a thought.

[Cornet]

[Ronan the Librarian]

[Cornet]

Revolution? Nope. I've seen parts of it, but don't recall the Germantown sequence. My jest was solely based on my recollection that the 40th held the distinction of being the first British regiment to break and run in the face of an American assault.

Your anecdote about the 59th is fascinating. I have no idea how such things would have been handled at that time. Were there rules against it? Were the officers drummed out, transfered to a regiment with more lace, or merely told to knock it off? Pinkish purple facings would be unfortunate under any circumstances.

You are probably right about most Americans being unaware that the British had more to worry about than just their rebellious colonies after 1778. I myself was aware of the shifting focus (the French are quite a distraction with their flouncing about), but I hadn't thought much beyond the immediate threat to us -- out-of-sight, out-of-mind. I knew it was there; I was too indolent to read up on it.

Do campaign rules exist for BG!?

[Ronan the Librarian]

Ah, there were two British officers in Revolution in the early part set in Boston - one was fat and camp, the other was skinny and camp. Absolutely no stereotypes were harmed in the making of this film.......

Homosexuality was not stigmatised in the way it later was (and of course it was far from uncommon in the Royal Navy); however, it was certainly not encouraged and it was reputedly the main reason for Germain's unpopularity (although personally, I think it was because he was a total sh1t). There were openly gay clubs and bars in London, known as Molly Houses, and of course classical Greek culture was very popular - though as Urban points out in "Fusiliers" this was not necessarily indicative of anything more than male bonding and hero worship, in the vast majority of cases.

IIRC, the 59th's change of facings followed a change of Colonel, so perhaps there was also a clear-out of personnel, which was not unknown in such circumstances. I'll try and have a look at their entry in the Army List, and their WO12s next time I'm up at the National Archives.
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You can lead a horse to water, but a toy soldier can no longer be lead (due to Health & Safety Regulations).

[Cornet]

Germain? Wow, that never occurred to me ... but he did seem a bit fussy. I wonder if that hand anything to do with his poor relationship with Sir William Howe, and consequently Howe's failure to inform Germain in a timely manner about the Philadelphia campaign.

National Archives? I am now convinced you are writing a book.
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Who carry caps and pouches, and wear the loup'ed clothes.