General de Brigade

[red lancer]

has anyone done a Bavarian Army for GdeB, if so how did you do it.

Thinking about using Front Rank figures as they are cheaper than Foundrys army deals for the same type of force.
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Red Lancer

[Custor]

The Bavarian OOB for 1809 is almost perfect for division sized games and perfectyl scaleable.

Brigade
2 Regt line each of two battalions, with 1 light infantry battalion.

2 Brigades per division. Add in 1 horse and 1 foot battery.

Add cavalry brigade of 2 regiments.

Three nearly identical divisions made the Korps.

[red lancer]

thanks Custor
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Red Lancer

[Blake]

I am new to Grand deBrigade and am trying to build a Bavarian Brigade
Im trying to make sure I have this correctly, breaking it down further.

What I have found on the internet stated

a Regiment = 2 battalion
battalion = 4 companies of 150-170 men

first question is Is this correct? (yes I assuming paper OOB vs actual Field numbers)

so in game terms that is 128 figures on 8 stands 4 figs. across two rows deep

Second part is How many guns would be in a battery?

Again the article stated a Bavarian Artillery regiment had 4 company which in turn contained 6 guns and 2 howitzer 150 men.
Found OOB for Wagram stating batteries contained 6 guns 6pds does this seem more accurate?

finaly Cav and again, Regiment had 4 squadrons of 180 men, but typicly only had horses for 1 squadron. Does seem to be correct?

Any help in this plan would be greatly appreciated

Blake

[Craig]

Blake,
For the infantry Btns i would go for 4 bases(one for each coy) with 8 figures( two ranks) per base(32 figures)
Battery 4 or 3 model guns (depending)
Regards,

[Eclaireur]

red lancer
I built a division on pretty much exactly the same lines as custor sketches out - two infantry brigades, one cavalry and two batteries.
I've only found one problem with it - which is that a solo game of Landshut is the only time it's been on the table since I've owned it (8 or 9 years !) Being a fan of historical scenarios, I haven't found another chance to use it. Occasionally I have thought of doing Hanau but that requires even more Bavarians + Landwehr. I realised that German contingents might be neat projects for painting, but their uses can be quite limited...
Want to buy my division ?
EC

[kev1863]

I have one brigade consisting of
3 x 32 line
1 x 3 gun Btty
8 x Jager/Skirmishers
1 x Brigade General.
The only time I use them is to bolster my French if I need a larger force.
We mainly play points games so it dos'nt really matter that much.
But we dont play that many weekend games so I dont get to use them as much as I would like to.
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1st Brigade, 1st Division, 1st Corps.
www.mosboroughgamers.webs.com
www.kevswargamescabin.blogspot.com

[Ronan the Librarian]

Blake,

If you are building an army for the 1809 campaign, you have the following:-

Line infantry - Each regiment had two battalions and each battalion had one grenadier and three fusilier companies, plus one fusilier company left behind as a depot. All companies officially comprised 180* other ranks, plus officers and musicians; 36 O/Rs from each company were designated "schutzen" (skirmishers) of whom 7 had rifles, but there was no "light" company as such until 1811.

[*as each battalion had a depot company, field battalions were at, or close to, full strength at the start of the campaign]

Light infantry - Single battalion of four companies in the field and one or two depot companies. Prior to 1811, there were no flank companies, but the schutzen were organised as for the line infantry.

Cavalry - Dragoon and Chevauxleger both had six squadrons, organised into three divisions; one division remained at home to form the regimental depot, the other two (ie 4 squadrons) went on campaign. Each squadron had around 125 all ranks.

Artillery - All batteries, whether line, light or heavy, had six guns and two howitzers, I think, but possibly the 12-pdr batteries only had the six guns (I will check this for you).

Infantry Brigade - Two line regiments and one light battalion..

Cavalry brigade - Two regiments.

Division - Two infantry and one cavalry brigades, plus two line, one light and one heavy batteries. In two of the three divisions, the second infantry brigade lost its light battalion, which was detached to the Tyrol. Two of the three cavalry brigades had one dragoon regiment and one chevaux-leger regiment; the other had two chevaux-leger regiments.

The divisional commander also had a "bodyguard" of one company of line infantry and a half-squadron of cavalry - these troops came almost entirely from the regimental depots, so there was no weakening of the component regiments of the division. A further company of line infantry and half-squadron (or possibly full squadron) of cavalry - also depot troops - were assigned to protect the corps commander, Lefebvre.
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You can lead a horse to water, but a toy soldier can no longer be lead (due to Health & Safety Regulations).

[chargeyourfirelocks]

Just to confuse things;

A source I have:

"Napoleonic Armies, Volume I, France and her Allies" by Ray Johnson, published in 1977 by the RAFM Company shows the 1809 infantry
regiments were based on the French model with 4 Fusilier companies, 1 Grenadier company, and 1 Jager company. Two battalions per regiment, 2 line regiments and one Light infantry battalion per brigade. Paper strength of each company was 150 men.

Bruce

[janbruinen]

My belief in the correctness of Gill is bigger then in Ray Johnson so in 1809 4 company strcuture for the Bavarians

[Ronan the Librarian]

I believe Gill cites both Johnson and Nafziger as inaccurate for the 1809 campaign; the six-company organisation was part of the 1811 re-organisation.
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You can lead a horse to water, but a toy soldier can no longer be lead (due to Health & Safety Regulations).

[Blake]

All

Hope this helps clear the waters.
I have spoken with George Nafgizer, and he has suggested the following
the french system of 6 companies per battalion for an 1809 Bavarian army TOE. The confussion I pointed out to him was from the section of his book, on the Bavariansarmy, showing a OB/TOE from 1804 (not sure on the year and sorry don't have the book w me) then having a 1811 OB/TOE. Suggesting that the change came in 1811, not earlier. He was sighting sources and appogies for the confussion. He asured me the Bavarians were well along in French system prior to 1809.


As to limated number of historic battles, I have found a few and thought I would ask if anyone has set up Scenarios for any of these
• Battle of Abensberg
• April 20, 1809
• Battles of Bergisel
• 12 April & 1 November 1809.
• Battle of Eckmühl
• 21 April – 22 April, 1809
• Battle of Gefrees
• 8 July 1809
• Battle of Hanau
• (30 - 31 October, 1813)
•
• Battle of Höchstädt
• 19 June 1800

• Battle of Hohenlinden
• 3 December 1800
• Battle of Landshut
• April 21, 1809
•
• The Battle of Messkirch
• 25 April 1800
•
• The Battle of Stockach
• May 3, 1800
• Battle of Wagram

My thought is that a brigade of Bavarians is enough figures to fight out a number of these small battles. The fact that They switched sides during the Napoleonic wars allow one to fight different type foes. I would ask the group what their thoughts and/or suggestion to gaming w/ General De Brigade under this plan?

Thanks
Blake

[Davoust]

I have over the last few months come up with what I think is a novel way of representing the Bavarian Infantry in 1809 and thought I would share it with the group as it might prove useful to others. My figures are all 15mm.

In 1809, most of the Bavarian infantry battalions consisted of 800+ men, this represents 40 figures in GdeB at 20-1. Battalions consisted of 4 companies and each company consisted of 20-30 Shutzen.

I have used 40 figure battalions based as follows:

1 Company of 1 x mounted command, 1 x standard bearer, 1 x drummer, 5 x infantry based on a 10 figure stand (5cm x 2 cm)

2 Companies of 8 infantry based on a 10 figure stand (5cm x 2 cm)

1 Grenadier company of 9 figures based on a 10 figure stand (5cm x 2 cm)

2 x Shutzen stands of 3 figures based on a 10 figure stand at half width (5cm x 1cm).

When in line, the Shutzen are placed behind the centre companies, so the frontage is correct for a 40 figure battalion, and when the Shutzen are deployed into a brigade skirmish screen then the frontage of the line remains the same (as it would have done).

In Column, this works as the bases are all the same length and it is also possible to form square using all of the figures.

I'll post some pictures if anyone is interested.

Regards,

Justin

[Ronan the Librarian]

Yes please, interested to see how this works.

On paper, the pre-1811 four companies each had 180 R&F, so when the 36 schutzen were detached and grouped together, you ended up with what was effectively five companies each with 144 R&F.
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You can lead a horse to water, but a toy soldier can no longer be lead (due to Health & Safety Regulations).