General de Brigade

[Ubique matt]

Catchy title, I know, but I was wondering if anyone can help. As a relative newcomer to gaming in general I realise this may be pedantic but if I’m going to the effort of (hopefully) accurately painting the figures then it should also make sense to get the overall ‘look’ correct.

After a brief diversion, caused by impulse buying of Perry’s plastic ACW miniatures, I’m now planning to concentrate on all the AWI figures I’ve recently bought but after posting on TMP I have a quandary.

What is the best way to represent an AWI British infantry command group? In particular the placement of the Union and regimental flags.

If using a four figure command group I assume there would be an officer, drummer/piper, two flag bearers but would the flags be to the fore relegating the officer the rear? Or Union Flag in front, Regimental flag behind? Both flags to the rear? Is it easier to simply use a six figure base?

Flag bearers leading from the front would seem the more obvious answer but was this actually the case? Several blogs I’ve seen show the flags to the rear.

Or do I need to stop worrying and individually mount my miniatures on pennies and use movement trays?

Regards,
Matt
http://ubique-matt.blogspot.com/

[Axebreaker]

It's a matter of taste if you want the truth,but as a long time modeler I think it's better to mount both flags at the rear on a multi figure base,giving you a better chance to see the other models and because it is easier to mount them in this position.
That said,I have mixed them before to get some drama on the base(ie.charging).
I hope this helps.

[Paul Marsh]

And I think it is Kings Colour on the right and Regimental colour on the left?

And shall we start another discussion on goats and the 23rd?

Regards
Paul

[Cornet]

I haven't come to that dilemma yet; that decision is scheduled for later this summer.

For the British Army there seem to be established protocols. For the Americans, not so much.

For the Americans, you have the option of dropping the national standard as possibly inaccurate. During the AWI, regiments were mostly recruited by states and maintained strong state identities. You have to consider that most of the states had been around 100 years or more, but the unified American nationality was a new idea. Naturally, Americans had stronger loyalties to their respective states than to the Continental Congress. Thus, some believe only the regimental flags were carried and that a national standard was not used.

While I do believe a national flag was carried on occasion, I have very little historical evidence to support my position. And given the strong state loyalties mentioned above, I wonder if a state flag was used in lieu of a national flag by some regiments.

Yeah yeah. I know you asked about the British flags, but i don't really know anything about that .... and I needed a break from work; so here you have it -- my unsolicited thoughts on a tangential related topic. Sorry to waste your time.
_________________
Then let us fill a bumper, and drink a health to those
Who carry caps and pouches, and wear the loup'ed clothes.

[Giles]

I agree with Axebreaker - I think the standards look better in the second rank, as they don't obscure the view of the other figures and I like having the officer and drummer in the front rank. That's on 4-figure bases. Occasionally with 6 figures bases I have the officer flanked by two musicians with the standards and an NCO in the second rank.

Don't worry about the Americans - they are just farm boy rabble after all

[Axebreaker]

[Ubique matt]

Thanks all for the feedback.

Cornet, my next question would have actually been about Cousin Jonathan’s forces, so thanks anyway. I had assumed that initially they would have been naturally less formal, becoming more regimented (no pun intended) as the war progressed.

Axebreaker, I have seen Giles’s blog. In fact he was directly responsible for establishing my own blog page. It’s been surprising easy to set up and maintain, I’d recommend anyone to give it a go.

The points made have given me several ideas about basing which I’ll try out before fixing the figures to the base. I still trying to work out if there is any advantage (or disadvantage) about placing the officers separate from the flag bearers.

Thanks again and I’ll let you get back to your discussions about goats.
Regards
Matt

[Ronan the Librarian]

Colours would be in front of the line when advancing, as they allowed both wings of the unit to maintain direction and alignment. When the enemy got close they were stationed to the rear; officially a small colour guard drawn from the 1 or 2 most reliable - ie thuggish - men from each company were supposed to protect them (and would have formed up immediately behind - advancing - and in front - during combat). The low strength of British line battalions during the war meant this was rarely done, if ever.

Hessian units had a small platoon to cover the five colours in battle, usually from the "left-over" files when the eight platoons had been formed.

Some Continental units had a single regimental flag (usually of State-related design) and a number of grand-division flags; the latter tended to be plain colours, sometimes with a motif/motto if this was unique to the unit (eg Webb's Additional).
_________________
You can lead a horse to water, but a toy soldier can no longer be lead (due to Health & Safety Regulations).

[Ubique matt]

Hello Ronan,

Thanks for that information. Very interesting details and makes a lot of sense.

I find the Hessians story during this period particularly fascinating. Hopefully you won’t mind if I pick your brains in the future.

Regards,
Matt

[Ronan the Librarian]

No worries. The Hesse Cassel (and I assume also Brunswickers, as it was a Prussian tactic and both followed Prussia slavishly) also formed a tenth platoon of "flanquers" (skirmishers) - about the same size as the colour guard - composed of volunteers from the eight "battle" platoons. These were used from Long Island onwards.

If you are particularly interested in the Hessians, get hold of Rodney Atwood's book (imaginatively titled "The Hessians"), which examines their organisation and performance right through the AWI. Of all the books written about the German contingents, it's the one most useful to wargamers.
_________________
You can lead a horse to water, but a toy soldier can no longer be lead (due to Health & Safety Regulations).

[Herkybird]

Dear Axebreaker.

I feel it was not a question of Rabbles and winning. The war saw the Americans becoming quite regularly trained and competent, and I feel they didnt win the war, that implies conquest and defeat of one side, I feel the Americans simply didnt lose!. I thing George Washington may have had something to do with that!
The analogy of the VC winning the Vietnam war is partly apt. You dont need to win battles to win a war, you simply have to be there when the enemy has gone home!. The American media probably lost you the war, curse them!

Well, thats another can of worms opened.... Be happy!
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He who in war has made no mistakes has not made war for very long.

[Axebreaker]

[Herkybird]

Sorry! - My bad!
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He who in war has made no mistakes has not made war for very long.

[Axebreaker]

All is well,no problems here.