General de Brigade

[Orange]

Just wondering, has anyone tried to wargame Mockern. If so, I'd be interested in your experiences.

EC's comments about the difficulty in refighting some of the larger Napoleonic battles got me thinking. In many ways Leipzig was a number of individual battles that were happening in close proximity to each other and the combat at Mockern (and Lindenau for that matter) being particularly self contained. Also, it seems to me that Mockern offers a number of interestin 'what if' possibilities - eg all or part of Ney's corps being made available to Marmont. Although a refight of Mockern would be a sizeable affair, it ought to be manageable in the world of GdeB?

[RAMCSEARCH]

If there is a prize for the longest delay before getting a reply it goes to 'Orange' 24.3.2004 to 5.9.2006

Mockern 16th Oct 1813 (Part I)

Prussian I Corps, York

Advance Guard, Hiller and Katzler (one usually took cavalry the other infantry)

Leib Grenadier bttn 682 men, 32 figs Elite
West Prussian Grenadier bttn 582 men, 32 figs Veteran
East Prussian Jager Battalion, 2 co 288 men, 16 figs to skirmish screen Veteran
Garde Jager 1 co 70men 4 figs to skirmish screen Elite

Fus/2nd East Prussian IR 377 men 20 figs Line to skirmish screen
1/Brandenburg IR 530 men 24 figs Line
2/12 RIR 530 men, 24 figs 2nd Line
3/13th Silesian LWIR 403 men 24 figs Conscript
2/14th Silesian LWIR 299 men 16 figs Conscript
4/15th Silesian LWIR 408 men 24 figs Conscript

2nd Lieb Hussar (1 sq and jagers) 183 men
1/2 and jager Brandenburg Hussar (2sq) 308 men
suggest combine to make 24 hussar figs Line
1/2/3/4/ Brandenburg Uhlan (4sq) 342 men 16 figs Line
1/2/3/4/ East Prussian Normal cav regt (4 sq) 421 men 21 figs Line
1/2/3/4/ 5th Silesian LWKR (4 sq) 201 men 10 figs Conscript

1 6pdr FAB 8 guns Line
1 6pdr HAB 8 guns Line

French VI corps Marmont

21st Division Lagrange

1st Brigade Jamin
1/37th Leger 16/399
2/37th Leger 18/382
3/37th Leger not reported
4/37th Leger 16/322
suggest use 2 36 Fig Light battalions

1/4th Marine 15/414 24 Fig Line
2/4th Marine 12/456 24 Fig Line
3$th Marine 17/431 24 Fig Line
1/Joseph Napoleon Regt 14/316 Any uniform info anyone ? 16 Figs

2nd Brigade Buquet
1/2nd Marine 18/436 24 Fig Line
2/2nd Marine 10/426 24 Fig Line
3/2nd Marine 14/397 24 Fig Line
4/2nd Marine 17/446 24 Fig Line
5/2nd Marine 14/404 24 Fig Line
6/2nd Marine 18/453 24 Fig Line


2 FAB 8 guns each

Notes The 37th Leger defended the hill to the east of Mockern. The 2nd and 4th Naval Infantry Regts defended in Mockern so ? 6 areas to the village each holding a max of 40 figures, North of Mockern 'Manor farm Buildings' and 'The Brewery, left of centre ordinary 'town', centre section 'The Tower'. Right of centre 'The Cemetery' To the east of Mockern was 'The Brickworks' then the hill, to the west of Mockern was the river Elster. The surrounding countryside was flat and open. Good map of area page 148 in Napoleon at Leipzig. Mockern is longer and narrower than I had thought and closer to the river Elster on its left flank.

Sources Digby Smith, 1813 Leipzig ISBN 1-85367-435-4
Peter Hofschroer, 'Napoleon at Leipzig' ISBN 1-883476-10-0
Digby Smith, Napoleonic Wars Data Book ISBN 1-85367-276-9
_________________
Simon W

[Jacko27]

Yes-Dr Brown and I and a couple of other guys from the club were fortunate to be invited to a certain barristers flat that he bought just to house his extensive collection of wargames figures for an all day refight of this battle a while ago.
One of the most memorable wargaming experiences I have ever had for sure-played on the biggest table I have played on.
It definitely worked with G de B but it needed to be a multiplayer game given the sheer number of troops-two players would struggle to get through the game turns.

[NTM]

Simon,

Your unit strengths are a bit out for the Prussians atleast.

I've not got the books to hand the Anschluss booklet on Leipzig is one and I've seen similar strengths elsewhere but can't remember titles at the moment.

The one's that I know of the top off my head are as follows.

Guard Jager 80 men
Fus/2.EP IR 360-380
Brandenburg IR 530
12. RIR 530
Silesian Ldw, there was 1 battalion from each Regiment 2 were around 400 strong 1 around 250

Strengths for the other units were below the full compliment quoted.

I can check on these if you wish.

[RAMCSEARCH]

Thanks thats great help. I like to try and use historical strengths wherever possible. I have basically used brigade strengths, which is all I had in the Digby Smith Lepzig 1813 book , deducted guesstimates for arty and attached cavalry then divided by the number of battalions! Very inexact ! The French multiple battalions have also then been amalgamated to make reasonable sized units, as I think that less than 24 men per infantry unit becomes a bit visually weak. As I recall they were listed as about 5000 men per brigade.

This scenario design is not as easy as it looks but its great fun if you have more than one book to cross reference and it gives a slightly better understanding of whats going on in the battle.

My scenario book 3 arrived yesterday Very impressed. Looks like I'll be needing plenty of white paint and some Austrians aswell...
_________________
Simon W

[NTM]

I've got the Anscluss book in front of me know so here are the strengths

Infantry

Leib Gren 682
WP Gren 582
EP Jager 288
4/Guard Jager 70
Fus/2. EP 377
I/Brandenburg 530
II/12. Res 530
13. Sil Ldw 403
14. Sil Ldw 299
15. Sil Ldw 408

Cavalry

2. Leib Hus 183 (includes Jager)
Brandenburg Hus 308 (includes Jager)
Brandenburg Uhlan 342
EP National Cav 421
5. Sil Ldw 201

Artillery

6pdr Foot #12 110
Horse #2 125

Lagrange's Division is listed as 5,543 strong no individual battalion strengths though.

I find Digby Smith a bit frustrating as regards this battle. In the OOB section of his Leipzig & Prussian Army books he states that it is as I Corps was actually organised on the day. The standard orbat less a few Landwehr Battalions is listed, but in the text describes the organisation of the Advanced Guard! He does give some clues as to how the A-G was sub-divided. Major Klux of the EP Jagers commanded the light infantry plus one of the Ldw Battalions, Hiller the rest of the infantry which would leave Katzler commanding the cavalry as well as being in charge overall, although Digby states Hiller was in command.

[RAMCSEARCH]

Thanks again, I'll edit Mockern (part I) and get around to doing Mockern (Part II) after the weekend at Newbury when I can hopefully get some more relevant books and maybe even some more figures.Not forgetting a few Humbrol paints before they go out of production with the sad demise of Airfix

Maybe DCR Brown will eventually get around to doing Leipzig in scenario book 'x' as well as he has done Austerltz in scenario book 3

Can I here make an appeal that wellingtons Peninsular Battles are done separately from his 'Waterloo Campaign' scenarios. That way we can get more Peninisular battles. There should be plenty of scope to break Ligny, Quatre Bras, Wavre and Waterloo down into 10 scenarios to fill one book...
_________________
Simon W

[RAMCSEARCH]

Sorry for the delay, apparently my house is sinking, and before you ask its not the lead mountain upstairs, it's something to do with clay and tree roots.

Mockern Part I edited, and here is part II. I've basically used half of Yorks corps and removed Freidrichs 22nd division from the French to concentrate on the struggle for the town of Mockern. Shoot me down in flames if you wish but I'm painting as fast I can already !

1st Brigade Steinmetz

1st East Prussian Grenadier battallion, 364 men 16 figs Veteran
Silesian Grenadier Battalion, 650 men 32 Figs Veteran
1/3/4 5th Silesian Landwehr 960 men so 16/16/16 figs or 24/24 conscript
1/2/4 13th Silesian Landwehr 996 men ditto
1/2/4/ 2nd Lieb Hussar regt 375 men ie the rest of the regt 24 Fig total
6pdr foot battery no 2

2nd Brigade Carl von Mecklenburg-Strelitz

1/2/ and Fus 1st East Prussian regt 1840 men so 32/32/32 Figs
Combined 1 and 2/2nd East Prussian regt 614 men 32 Figs
2/6th Silesian Landwehr 680 men 32 Figs
1/2/3/4/ Mecklenburg-Strelitz Hussars 321 men 16 Figs
6pdr foot battery no 1

12 pdr foot batteries 1 and 2

Cavalry Brigade Jurgass
1/2/3/4 1st West Prussian Dragoon regt 294 men 16 Fig
1/2/3/4 Lithuanian Dragoon regt 439 men 24 Fig
1/2/3/4 1st Neumark Landwehr cavalry regt 219 men 10 Fig
Horse Batteries numbers 1 and 3

Marmonts 20th Division Compans

Brigade Pelleport
2/32nd Leger 19/231
3/32nd Leger 15/313
suggest use one 36 fig light infantry battalion

1/1st Marine 16/333 18 Fig Line
2/1st Marine 16/335 18 Fig Line
3/1st Marine 14/358 18 Fig Line
4/1st Marine 16/334 18 Fig Line
5/1st Marine 15/364 18 Fig Line

Brigade Joubert

1/3rd Marine 11/487 24 Fig Line
2/3rd Marine 1/186 (parcel out to other two units ?)
3/3rd Marine 13/447 24 Fig line

20th Provisional Regt 30 Fig 2nd Line made up of
5/66th 21/319
3/122nd 19/300

25th Provisional Regt 36 Fig 2nd Line made up of
3/47th 20/445
3/86th 21/357

Artillery Two FAB 6 6 pdr and 2 Howitzers each

Reserve Artillery Two 12 pdr Batteries

Cavalry Brigade Normann
2nd Wurtemburg Chevauleger 4 sq 24 Fig
4th Wurtemburg Chevauleger 4 sq 24 Fig
_________________
Simon W

[MaxxVane]

Another long gap before a reply to this post

What 15/18mm figures should I use for the French Marines ?

[NTM]

The Marine/Naval Artillery Regiments are normally depicted wearing blue greatcoats with red epaulettes and covered shakos so any grenadier in greatcoat/shako figure should be suitable. There is mention made of the bicorne in use so throw some in for variety if you wish. If you don't want figures in shako the uniform was the old habit veste in artillery style. See the Napoleon's Sea Soldiers Osprey for more details.

[MaxxVane]

Osprey book is out of stock

Anyone have any pictures ?

[baxterj]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Napoleons-Sea-Soldiers_W0QQitemZ260283651569QQihZ016QQcategoryZ70682QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

a copy on ebay. I would use greatcoated elites in covered shakos with the odd bicorne thrown in. greatcoats and trousers in blue.

John

[MaxxVane]

Thanks for the link, I have e:mailed the seller to see if he will post it to the UK.

[GL Z.D. Olsuviev]

[MaxxVane]

Got a copy of Napoleons Sea Soldiers today from the Partizan show today

So, after a quick skim read -

Marine Org.
6 Coys per Btn
No Elite Coys (Grenadier Coy was dropped after 1807)

No Eagles ?
Any Fanions ?